Aivius v. Charlieseeese, Dec 2020
Case
With Aki presiding, on 21st December 2020, Aivius charged Charlieseeese with Coercive Recruitment and requested that Charlieseeese's Yoahtlan citizenship be revoked. Charlieseeese was found not guilty.
Proceedings
Aivius:
I would like to sue Charlieseeese for subverting the citizens and power of Yoahtl by not only coercing new members to join Icenia but to instigate them away from Yoahtl while living primarily in Icenia as an Icenian. I would ask for the removal of citizenship due to these actions which can be seen as treason to some extent. I would like this to be looked under the law of no dual citizenship, as he is primarily seen in Icenia.
SpaceVolcano:
The courts will hear the case of Aivius vs Charlieseeese in the matter of Subverting the Yoahtlan Nation by coercion and instigation of new members to leave Yoahtl and join a foreign Nation.
Aki will be presiding
Aki:
Thank you High Justice. To start this trial, I would like to hear an opening statement from the prosecution, Aivius. The channel is open for your opening statement.
Aivius:
Hello fellow Yoahtlans, I bring forth that not only has charlieseeese broken the dual citizenship law but not only primarily living in Icenia, but is apart of its government, has tried stealing members from Yoahtl to Icenia but also encouraging new friends to join Icenia over Yoahtl. As such I think he should be stripped of his citizenship or exiled under these actions. This prohibits the growth and expansion of Yoahtl and subverting the Yoahtlan nation's power and citizens by doing aforementioned actions.
Aki:
I now ask Charlieseeese to declare guilt or non guilt. In a case of pleading not guilty, then please provide an opening statement
Charlieseeese:
I plead not guilty
Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed court,
I urge you in the coming deliberation to think about the nature of this case and how it applies to me. I am but a simple newfriend manager and judge of the Icenian court. I will provide bombshell evidence to clear my name that will leave Aivius's legal reputation in shreds. This will conclude my opening statement.
Aki:
Thank you Charlie
The court calls on Aivius to provide evidence for their claim, including witnesses
Aivius:
Sure, I will bring upon example of example a: https://gyazo.com/9c245a7c8cde225408a8a5e05c33782a
In this example I already have been talking to Neo of joining Yoahtl. If charlieseeese is a citizen, then why would he try to steal me to Icenia.
Example b: https://gyazo.com/897ef3a9395cfb15da0ffafe3d974a18 off that bat he is trying to get someone to move to Icenia over Yoahtl
Example c: https://gyazo.com/dd4f53e95997e27417e420ba9c54f7f5 Again stating that Icenia is more welcome than Yoahtl. Which again shows he's not doing his part in helping.
Example d: https://gyazo.com/8b21e846bf0e014c2da7813d1cefb88b Here he is again trying to get someone to join Icenia over Yoahtl where he is a citizen of.
Example e: https://gyazo.com/41c42f99e170e951ac31e109ee0ec0b6 This shows he's in the Icenian government and is working with them as primary resident
Example F: https://i.imgur.com/jmRMEC3.png He is running in the elections for Icenia.
With all of this evidence against him. I don't see how he can defend himself as his actions are completely placed on the table for all to see.
Aki:
Aivius, do you have any witnesses to call on?
Aivius:
I have no witnesses at this time other than the evidence provided.
Aki:
Thank you. The court now calls on Charlieseeese to provide evidence for his defense. This also includes witnesses
Charlieseeese:
I have no witnesses or testimony to provide. I do however have questions for Aivius. If I close my testimony now, may we move on to cross examination?
Aki:
Yes. I will allow cross examination between the prosecution and defense. One question and one response. The order will go defense to prosecution, then prosecution to defense. No scurrilous attacks during the cross, but accusations within the bounds of the trial are allowed
Charlieseeese:
Aivius, do you have any evidence of players who wished to settle in Yoahtl but as a direct result of my actions have chosen to settle in Icenia? I would like to see specific names and evidence that it was my words that caused such a change in plans.
Aivius:
I can't say I have anyone I can pull as a witness that have joined Icenia over the results of your actions at this present time, but due to the evidence about you have attempted to have 4 people join Icenia along with myself and attempted to do so which shows intent that you're not helping Yoahtl with new citizens but instead Icenia.
I think Example A has the most power there.
Charlieseeese:
So, what you mean to say is that you have no knowledge of specific individuals that have been "stolen" from Yoahtl and have instead moved to Icenia because of me. Is this correct?
Aivius:
I am stating im unaware of how many that could have been stolen from yoahtl, however the evidence shows the intent you have on growing Icenia and not Yoahtl which you are a citizen of.
Charlieseeese:
The plaintiff multiple times during this trial has claimed that I am a citizen of Yoahtl and as such, my actions constitute treason
However, I have not been a citizen of Yoahtl for many months. The last recorded time I was a citizen was in August 2020, nearly half a year ago
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/348687557455904778/790720154652246076/unknown.png
Exhibit A
This is a screenshot of the Yoahtlan census of September, 2020
It can be clearly seen that my name is not on the list of citizens
As such, rumors of dual citizenship do not hold up. My actions were only in accordance to my role as newfriend ambassador of Icenia as assigned to me by Icenian president ChrisChrispie
It may appear, given my citizen role on discord, that I am a citizen of Yoahtl. However, the reason I have this role is because of my position as a long time member of the Yoahtl community, as outlined by bg in Exhibit A
Aki:
Aivius, if you have a question for the defendant, present it now
Aivius:
Charlieseeese, You said you were not a citizen for month, but Yoahtl citizenship is for life. The evidence you provided were people who were active enough in Yoahtl to have the role in discord. The was a recent census where you were added back on to that(due to activity). So how can you deny your citizenship when its a lifelong thing?
Charlieseeese:
Can you provide this recent census?
Aivius:
Yes, I will bring my witness NeoTide in on the most recent census done by him.
He can present this.
Aki:
Due to the nature of the evidence presented during cross, I will allow neotide to testify
NeoTide:
Charlieseeese:
I would like to answer the rest of your question, but I must ask, how recent is this census?
NeoTide:
I calculated play times over the last 30 days as of last night
Charlieseeese:
To answer your question, Aivius, I would believe this to be an administrative error.
I did not hold citizenship status in the census in september
Since then I have not requested citizenship status
Aivius:
How would it be an error if you have citizenship for life?
Charlieseeese:
I do not hold citizenship for life as dual citizenship isn't typically permitted
I am solely a citizen of Icenia
Aivius:
So you're stating that you're not a citizen and they your right to citizenship should be revoked?
Charlieseeese:
As far as I am aware, no special status has been given to me
What I'm saying is that I haven't been a citizen for months now and any claims to the contrary do not align with reality. I don't understand your concept of "right to citizenship," such a thing does not exist in Yoahtl
Aki:
Despite anyone renouncing citizenship or not, renouncements are not retroactive. I’m still interested in the actions of all involved during the set time scale. I would also advise everyone to review the court proceedings above and see various punishments the courts are able and are not able to issue
If either Aivius or Charlieseeese have a question I’ll entertain it now
Aivius:
Charlieseeese, So being a citizen of Yoahtl. Why would you not want the nation to grow by encouraging other to join Icenia, even if they had plans to join/joined yoahtl like myself?
Charlieseeese:
Explain how that is relevant to the charges you have presented
Aivius:
This is on the term of poaching and the intent to poach me for example. I am using myself as a witness.
Alongside w/ evidence.
Charlieseeese:
You still have not provided real evidence of me making people that are planning on going to yoahtl go to icenia instead
Aivius:
example A
Charlieseeese:
That’s a loaded question and I refuse to answer it
Aivius:
So you refuse to answer the question because you refuse the proof presented within the question?
Charlieseeese:
I refuse to answer the question because it’s loaded
Aivius:
Is any of it non factual based on the evidence.
Charlieseeese:
I have aleady told you what part of the question I believe is non factual
Aki:
Aivius, is it possible to rephrase the question?
Aivius:
Sure. When I join/joined yoahtl, you have stated to join Icenia. Is it true you that you wanted to recruit me and show intent on stealing me from Yoahtl to Icenia?
Charlieseeese:
Still loaded
Maybe try to rephrase the question more
Aivius:
When I join/joined yoahtl, is it true that you tried to recruit me to Icenia?
Charlieseeese:
You hadn’t joined yoahtl yet to my knowledge at the time
Aivius:
I was already building a town and already talked with Neo at that point.
Charlieseeese:
So yes, I did attempt to recruit you because I assumed you were just some other new person
How should I know that though
Aivius:
You don't talk to other citizens about whats happening in Yoahtl?
Charlieseeese:
Not typically
I haven’t lived in yoahtl for over a year
Aivius:
Shouldn't you engage more with your fellow Yoahtlans?
Charlieseeese:
I join VC to listen to IRL drama
Aki:
To avoid loaded questions, please direct questions towards fact finding, not accusations
Charlieseeese:
I don’t typically pay attention to new friends and there plans for towns
I’m not sure how me engaging more with my fellow yoahtlans is relevant to this case
Aivius:
Is it true that you're a member of the Icenian government tasked in recruitment?
Charlieseeese:
Yes
I am a judge of the icenian courts
Aivius:
Does that make you a Primary citizen of Icenia?
Charlieseeese:
President ChrisChrispie assigned me to help him with new friends earlier this year as well as my brother
It does
Aivius:
I rest my case.
Aki:
Ok, does Charlie have any questions?
Charlieseeese:
No your honor
Aki:
is there any further evidence anyone wants to bring forward? This includes witnesses
Aivius:
No your honor.
Charlieseeese:
Not at this time your honor
Aki:
Thank you both
Aivius, any closing statements?
Aivius:
Yes, your honor.
I will say that today will be a court case to show how this court is ran. Charlieseeese has already renounced his citizenship alongside his brother which he stated "you can't renounce what you don't have" So even though he is legally a citizen. I think along with the evidence and intent provided should show the court and its patrons the fact that Charlieseeese as an Icenian official who wants to take new friends who even think about joining Yoahtl such as I have already shown and stated.
Aki:
Aivius, thank you for the closing statement
Charlieseeese, any closing statements
Charlieseeese:
Yes your honor
Ladies and gentlemen of this alleged court
The conclusion to this trial from the very start has been clear. The plaintiff has built his case upon nothing but jealousy and rumours. He has provided no evidence besides screenshots of me telling newfriends they should come to Icenia. Let it be known that when directly asked, the plaintiff failed to give even one name of a newfriend who, as a result of my intervention, settled in Icenia rather than Yoahtl. I have merely acted in my role as newfriend ambassador for Icenia and have never in my career convinced a newfriend on their way to Yoahtl to come to Icenia instead. Even if his claims were factual, the plaintiff can not paint this as grounds for exile from a community which I have been a part of since the very start of the server (and longer).
If the glove fits you must acquit
Aki:
Thank you
To begin my decision, I want to express exactly what the court can and cannot do. The court can inflict punishment on citizens and residents of yoahtl for the committing of a crime, and can further remove citizenship from someone as a result of a case. However, to my knowledge, a court case has never explicitly removed citizenship as a permanent punishment for a crime. In every case where citizenship was revoked, there was a condition for restoration of that citizenry. Another point was that the revocation of that citizenry was done for the benefit of the nation as a whole and for the victims of the defendant, such as in cases of harassment. The court cannot exile people for their crimes. The only president on this is in cases where the defendant was on the PoS list, thus would de facto be exiled anyway. Nothing Charlie did was grounds for being on the PoS list, thus he won't be exiled.
On to the decision, as dictated by the charter, every yoahtlan citizen has a right to the freedom of speech and expression. To this end, I think that Charlie’s status as a dual citizen shouldnt impose on his right to expression, and if that means he tells people in ! chat to join icenia then so be it. However, Aivius also has the freedom FROM Harassment. I view Charlie repeatedly asking Aivius, as well as other people mentioned, to join Icenia after refusal as a violation of this freedom from harassment.
Just as Charlie's freedom of expression isn't limited by his dual citizenship, dual citizenship doesn't mean you can violate the terms of harassment. Another big part of the case was that Charlie was a member of the Icenian government while he was recruiting people. I don't want to impose limitations on dual citizens from serving in governments in the future, however, I would be remiss if there wasn’t a concern over conflicts of interests in this case. I would encourage the yoahtlan government to either discuss with the ololtic on this issue or issue laws and decisions regarding this imposition.
One question brought up multiple times but was not engaged with was the concept of ‘Primary residence’ of Charlie. THis case was not directly about this, so my decision was not greatly affected by this line of discussion, but I do want to express that owning property in yoahtl does not make it your primary residence. Tankbuster44, for example, isn't a citizen because he owns the HJ Industries building. I would advise the council, Olotic, or alcuahtl to find a better precedent for determining primary residence that would allow for bgbba to be a citizen despite his time spent on the gor, but not include people who may spend many hours in yoahtl but be leading other towns.
As for the recruitment question. I find it silly to punish anyone for trying to recruit newfriends to their nation. No nation has a monopoly on newfriends and we certainly don't want to impose nations on newfriends without their knowledge. However, I do find it a bit silly that people are making concerted efforts to recruit yoahtlans into icenia. Not all the evidence presented painted a picture of a concerted effort to destroy or damage yoahtl, however. It did paint a picture of charlies attempting to recruit newfriends and trying to recruit residents of yoahtl to icenia. While the court cannot dictate that dual citizens lose the right to free speech, the court does state that in the future, any attempts to poach or recruit yoahtlan citizens repeatedly is viewed as harassment and will be punished as such.
However since I aim not to post-hoc punish charlie, I find him not guilty of this complaint. I encourage future judges, however, take this court case into consideration if Charlie, or any other dual citizen, attempts to harass yoahtlans into joining another nation.